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What do you look for in a writing group?






What do you look for in a writing group?


If you've some experience of writing groups, good or bad, I'd appreciate your input.

Poll #1841662 Writing groups

Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of a writing group

Yes
36(94.7%)
No
2(5.3%)

If 'Yes', why did you hope to gain from joining?

I wanted to get critique/feedback on my own writing
30(33.7%)
workshops/presentations on writing-related subjects
10(11.2%)
Critique groups with other writers in my genre
22(24.7%)
Networking
23(25.8%)
Something else, which I'll explain in the comments
4(4.5%)

If 'No', is there a particular reason why not?

Yes
1(25.0%)
No
2(50.0%)
Something else, which I'll explain in the comments
1(25.0%)

When you attended your first few meetings with the group, was there something which made a big impression (good or bad)?

Yes
16(47.1%)
No
14(41.2%)
If 'Yes' please explain in a comment
4(11.8%)

What would make you leave a writing group?

Not a good fit for me/my writing
29(19.0%)
Membership fees too expensive
18(11.8%)
Too far away
18(11.8%)
Uncomfortable atmosphere
29(19.0%)
Unfriendly atmosphere
29(19.0%)
Too few members
9(5.9%)
Too many members
12(7.8%)
Something else, which I'll explain in the comments
9(5.9%)


If there's something not covered in the poll, please feel free to leave a comment anyway. I'm particularly interested in things which made a big impression on you, either in a good or bad way.


Related posts:
What would put you off from joining/staying with a writing group?

The Critiquee's Charter


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Comments

( 59 comments — Leave a comment )
mutive
May. 21st, 2012 03:15 pm (UTC)
To me, it mostly comes down to convenience and atmosphere.

As far as convenience goes, it's all about "can I get there without it being a huge hassle"? If it is, great. If not, it's probably not going to happen. (Esp. as there are great writing groups online - www.critiquecircle.com and critters.org are both pretty awesome and free.)

After that, I wouldn't show up for very long at any writing group that I wasn't getting something out of. I've been in groups that are so fluffy that the advice is useless. (And a few which honestly feel mean, which I find unproductive, too.) So that's important as well. (And I've seen a lot more lean on the fluffy side than the mean side. You know, the sorts who say "your story is brilliant!" and don't give a single helpful comment.)
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 03:43 pm (UTC)
When it comes to critiquing, there's definitely a learning curve involved - often for both parties ;)

Thanks for the input :)
(no subject) - mutive - May. 21st, 2012 03:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jongibbs - May. 21st, 2012 03:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
tesserae_
May. 21st, 2012 03:31 pm (UTC)
Hmmm....I joined a writing group that was a special-interest section of a larger group and ended up moderating it for a few years. It was a really interesting experience, and I think a big part of my learning was not just in getting critiques but in learning to critique outside of my genre. What induced me to give it up was that, as moderator of a public access group (anyone in the larger group could join our sessions) I got tired of mediating the problem personalities - the people writing racist stereotypes who reacted badly to critiques of same; the 80 year old writer whose second reading featured soft-core pedophilia, the various folk who sucked air out of the room in different ways.... I enjoyed working with the core group but finally couldn't handle the rest of it, you know? And I'm not sure what the answer is; all groups need new blood but also need a mechanism for identifying/dealing with a poor fit, and it can be a difficult balance to strike.
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 03:44 pm (UTC)
'...all groups need new blood but also need a mechanism for identifying/dealing with a poor fit

I think that may be one of the most difficult things about running a writing group.

Thanks for sharing :)
nathreee
May. 21st, 2012 03:42 pm (UTC)
I found an online writing group eventually and I was surprised by how much I had in common with the other members. Not just our age group and our preferred genre but also our style and our level of expertise. I'd heard about birds of a feather, but I had never actually met so many women who liked the same kinds of stories I did.

A writing group becomes uncomfortable to me when there's too much pressure on quantity. Also, the atmosphere must be friendly enough to agree to disagree about things, to say you don't like a sentence without anyone getting angry or sad. Critiques should contain good points as well as flaws and everyone should be comfortable with that.
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 03:45 pm (UTC)
Online groups can work well, but (for me) I really enjoy the face to face atmosphere of a good group.

Thanks for the input, Ellen :)
latteya
May. 21st, 2012 03:57 pm (UTC)
I've been in a couple, both of which I left. One was before I was serious about it and I found the others to be much too serious for me. The next was when I was serious, but the others were not near serious enough. I went to one meeting of the one here where I live, but it was not for me. Too many people at too many different levels of both skill and commitment. I think the best thing is to find a small number of others ( 5 or less) with your level of seriousness and commitment to the craft. And a huge turn-off for me is when people show up just wanting their egos stroked. I'm not there to blow sunshine up someone's behind, I'm there to offer critical feedback with the goal of strengthening a piece of work. ( Getting off my soap box now.)
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 04:03 pm (UTC)
Lol, I know what you mean.

It's not easy striking a good balance, which keeps the more serious folks interested while offering something for the less committed writers (and vice versa</>)

Thanks for sharing, Stephanie :)
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Sue Wentz
May. 21st, 2012 04:01 pm (UTC)
I've been in three writing groups; two local and one regional. I left the local ones after several years and two terms as the president of one of them, and will probably not renew my membership with the next when it comes due.

On the local level, I found three problems that I finally couldn't ignore anymore. The first was that the meetings seemed to deteriorate into gossip and chit-chat sessions, making them run way too long with very little productivity. This wasn't helped by members completely ignoring the ten minute limit we'd set on reading. When fifteen people showed up, it turned into an endurance test.

The second issue was that because so many members tended to be ultra-sensitive to critique, it was decided that only positive and encouraging comments would be allowed. That made it pretty pointless for my purposes. As nice as it is to know what I'm doing right, I really need to know what I might be doing wrong.

The last issue was that I felt that my work really had nothing in common with what everyone else was doing. I was a fiction author in a sea of reminiscence writers. The first meeting I attended I read a chapter that involved a protagonist contemplating suicide. One of the members very seriously suggested I get counseling. (In retrospect, I take that as a compliment.) I also found myself slapping temporary patch-edits on my work to avoid offending the more elderly/conservative people in the groups.

What I've settled on for now is a small group of solid writers and perceptive readers who aren't afraid to give or receive constructive feedback. Most of them are online and I do miss some of the social aspect of meetings, but I do seem to get much more accomplished this way.

Sue
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 04:26 pm (UTC)
Sounds like you've got yourself a good critique group there, Sue. I know what you mean about meetings deteriorating into chit-chat sessions etc. It's certainly something I'd seek to avoid.

Thanks for the input :)
amy34
May. 21st, 2012 04:30 pm (UTC)
I knew I'd found the right group from the beginning because the feedback was harsh but constructive (not mean-spirited). I critiqued three entire novels through this group, and parts of a 4th and 5th. Ultimately I sold novel #3 to a big-6 publisher, and I'm still with the group.
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 04:34 pm (UTC)
Nice one, Amy :)
jediknightmuse
May. 21st, 2012 04:55 pm (UTC)
I was sort of in a writing group (a real life one, anyway), for like...five weeks. In November 2010, I was doing NaNo and our ML for Connecticut sent out an email saying someone in a nearby town was looking to start a writer's group. I emailed the girl who was looking to start it (a few years younger than me), and asked if she'd like a co-leader. She said yes. We agreed to have two places to meet- the library in my town and then the library in basically her town. I was only ever able to go the meetings in my town, mainly because I'd either get scheduled to work and/or I wouldn't have a way to get down there (I don't like driving in unfamiliar places, and...yeah).

I ended up making a message board that we were going to use for discussions when we weren't meeting. Oh but wait! This was after I had already suggested a Facebook group and the suggestion was ignored by the person I was supposed to be co-leading the group with. Then someone ended up suggesting a Facebook group after a few weeks of trying to use the message board, and they went ahead and made one. Funny how that works. (You're going to see a fair amount of bitterness in this story, haha.)

The few meetings I went to weren't that bad. I never had anything critiqued (which in hindsight was probably a good thing, because there was a woman there who...well, she made it obvious that she knew a lot about writing, and I have a feeling she would have been really harsh about my writing). It was a little awkward because this girl that I'd met at the one meet up that I led during NaNo (this whole thing with the group wasn't even until after NaNo had ended) came to the meetings and she kind of did some things that kind of indirectly embarrassed me.

There were some other things that irritated me...I think certain discussions on the Facebook group...but otherwise things were kind of okay.

Then one day, I get an email from the same woman who I'd call a writing snob. It was sent to both me and the girl who'd come to the meet up I'd led during November, and it said the following:

We (insert everyone else but myself and ONE OTHER MEMBER) have had a long discussion about what we want out of a writing group and where we would like the group to go in the future. During this discussion we decided that, for various reasons (basic logistics, personalities, experience levels, goals, etc.),will be splitting off from Tales of the Muse and forming our own group.

We all wish you both the best of luck with your writing and with Tales of the Muse and hope that in time you will attract many more members with similar wants and needs as yourselves.

Sincerely,
(Insert their names here)


I can see why they didn't want the other girl to be involved, kind of, but me? They barley interacted with me. I never showed them any of my writing.

The stupid thing is that we were meeting at a public place, so it's not like they could actually KEEP me from showing up...what if we'd put flyers up and other people decided to join in on the meetings?

I ended up making this super long, haha. Continued in next comment.
jediknightmuse
May. 21st, 2012 04:55 pm (UTC)
I ended up just not even bothering to respond to the email. I was too pissed off, and eventually I realized it just wasn't even worth it. I didn't feel a connection to any of the other members of the group.

>.> So now because of that, even if I FOUND people to be part of a real life writer's group, I'd be very, very picky about how it was done and I would absolutely want to co-lead it with someone I actually KNEW for a long time.

So based on THAT experience, I want friendly people who are around the same age group, aren't too "advanced," (i.e. on the verge of being published, because then they just- and this is based on a member that I never actually met because he couldn't come to the meetings in my town- show off their knowledge and make you look bad) write the same genre (or at least similar genre), are willing to meet where it's most convenient, are willing to utilize the internet as necessary, aren't going to be super harsh with criticism, and just...yeah.

I've had better luck with online writing groups that I've started.

I was a member of another writing group that used to (or maybe it still does, I don't know) meet at my town's library, too. It was made up of way older people, making me the youngest. I mainly stopped going to the meetings because of my car being totaled and getting busy, but also because it was hard to "connect" with them, because they were so much older (like...45+) and they didn't really write fantasy like I did. I think I was really the only one who wrote fantasy.

One of these days I'll have a job where I have a reliable schedule and have weekends off, and maybe I'll be able to try and get a group started, or join one. The only thing I'm iffy on is the fact that leading a writing group online is different from doing it in person, and i wouldn't want to try and do it on my own, so I'd need to find someone willing to co-lead.

tl;dr I had bad experiences with the two groups I was part of. :| They weren't bad enough to make me not ever want to join one again, though, if I can find a group that I can connect to.
(no subject) - jongibbs - May. 21st, 2012 05:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jediknightmuse - May. 21st, 2012 11:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
garyfrank
May. 21st, 2012 05:03 pm (UTC)
I keep in mind a difference between critique groups (whose sole purpose is to bring like-minded writers together to critique each other's work) and a writing group, where writers meet to discuss different aspects of writing and the industry, possibly with a guest speaker who discusses some facet of the craft. The writers group is treated like an organization with a board to lightly "govern" the group (not the members perse), handle treasury functions and plan the yearly program.

The hardest thing I've found in the two local groups I belong to is balancing wide range of skill levels and committment to publishing. Who do you cater to? The newbie who has a casual interest in writing or the member who's been around for a decade who seriously wants a writing career?

Then there's the issue of genre. Multi-genre groups work on some levels, but don't work on others. Everyone can talk about craft; it's basically the same for all genres. But beyond that, I think horror writers want to hear from other horror writers and maybe not from romance writers (fill in your genre here).

The bottom line for me is to experience writers groups for more than one meeting in case the first one I go to isn't their best and to decide what I want from the group. If I'm writing horror novels and the group is made of romance novelists, am I going to leave becauase they speak a different genre than I do or learn from other novelists?
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 05:09 pm (UTC)
I keep in mind a difference between critique groups (whose sole purpose is to bring like-minded writers together to critique each other's work) and a writing group

Absolutely! In theory, once you get a reasonable sized group together, members can form critique groups on their own, with folks who write in a similar genre.

I'm not so sure a writing group needs a board though, unless members pay a subscription, which isn't something I'm planning on in this case.

Thanks for sharing, Gary :)
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garyfrank
May. 21st, 2012 05:09 pm (UTC)
What made a big impression on me?

When I first joined the Garden State Horror Writers, I found a group of enthusiastic writers all writing dark fiction of one kind or another. There was a good, positive vibe and a number of the members were published while many of them were seriously striving to get published. A lot of members also belonged to the Horror Writers Association so there were a lot of industry connections, which made networking a great way to meet published authors, editors and such. I felt very welcomed and I knew I had found a home with these people.

When I joined Liberty States Fiction Writers, I found a group of positive, enthusiastic novelists, all seeking (or having already found) publication. As I write mostly novels, this was very important to me. I knew I could learn a lot from them about craft and also what's going on in the publishing industry.
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 05:13 pm (UTC)
I know what you mean. There's a terrific buzz given off by an enthusiastic group of people :)
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asakiyume
May. 21st, 2012 05:40 pm (UTC)
I went back and forth between putting "yes" and "no" for the first question, because yes, I've been part of writing groups, in a sense--in a sense, I am now part of one--but no, I've never been part of a formal one of the sort you're thinking of organizing.

I've had friends over to my house a couple of times just to write and then to read bits of our writing. I did that based on my memory of the one time I did Nano, being invited out to a coffee shop with other people who were doing Nano, and how neat it felt just to actually be physically writing in the presence of others. Not something that appeals to everyone, I'm betting, but I enjoyed it.

I've never done a formal writing group for all sorts of reasons, some of them logistical (I have lots of demands on my time, and I live at a bit of a distance from population centers) and some just personal (I'm only gradually working up to feeling comfortable with the give-and-take that a writing group involves).

For me, in addition to wanting a friendly environment, I'd really want it to stay on track, focused on writing. I wouldn't want it to devolve into a social meeting.
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 06:18 pm (UTC)
Thanks, Francesca :)
reannon
May. 21st, 2012 05:48 pm (UTC)
Joining: Our group write-ins help my work ethic.
Leaving: If the group members are at a different place than I am, I wouldn't hang around. My current group has a healthy mix of beginners and published writers. I'm not so interested in a crit group as I am the group write-ins, but we have both. My online group is comprised of published authors, and our conversations are more about promotion, marketing and contracts than writing advice. A group of all newbies would probably not hold much interest for me.
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 06:19 pm (UTC)
thee's nothing like having a regular critique session to keep you churning out new words :)
year_anda_day
May. 21st, 2012 06:26 pm (UTC)
The writer's group I belong to is very friendly. When we joined we were introduced to everyone and told how things worked. We had some nice refreshments. It was very welcoming so we naturally wanted to stay.

When the group started getting too big, we started a little offshoot of it- a small poetry group, where all the poets could gather and discuss poetry and read their poems on a separate day. We go to both meetings still and it's a lot of fun.

We have writers of all experience levels, so sometimes the ratio of useful critique to fluff is low, but it's always a fun time.

The only thing that I don't like about it is we have one member who is a bit borish -- he goes on and on and on at times about his favorite subject (himself and his 'excellent writing'). And he tends to turn the subject of any discussion to himself whenever possible. Our moderator is a really nice guy-- too nice to confront Mr. Boor. So... I would say if you get any problem members, please don't be afraid to speak to them privately about their behavior issues as it may be making members of your group uncomfortable.
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 06:28 pm (UTC)
Good advice. Thanks, Laura :)
Walter Giersbach
May. 21st, 2012 08:16 pm (UTC)
Writing Groups Aren't Marriage Contracts

I've been in three groups, sequentially, moderate one now and believe strongly in them for the networking, the critiques that uncover "gotchas," and friendships. I severely dislike writers who come to the group for psychological therapy, who drift away from the thread of discussion, and who fail to learn or respond seriously to the challenge of writing. I hate terribly large groups. And, I would never join a fee-based group unless Stphen King or Orson Scott Card was the moderator.

There may be some additional thoughts in a piece I posted to Flash Fiction Chronicles on "Why Writing Groups?" (http://www.everydayfiction.com/flashfictionblog/why-writing-groups/#comments).
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 09:54 pm (UTC)
Re: Writing Groups Aren't Marriage Contracts
Thanks for the link, Walt :)
amysisson
May. 21st, 2012 08:17 pm (UTC)
Here's something not yet touched upon (I think).

I wouldn't join a writing group where the modus operandi is authors reading aloud, and verbal critiques being given on the spot. I have difficulty processing information when it is read aloud to me; I don't know why, because I can understand a professor lecturing, but not a professor reading his/her lecture notes. In addition, I want to give and get thoughtful critiques, not just initial gut reactions. In my former writing group, we submitted to each other via e-mail one week in advance of the meeting, and were relaxed enough that a person could ask us for a day or two extension if needed -- but it was expected that they ask. This worked very well for us.

jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 09:24 pm (UTC)
Interesting. I find that style of critique quite useful (though it's important to have a strong moderator).

Thanks for sharing, Amy :)
(Deleted comment)
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 09:26 pm (UTC)
It's funny, but as I read the first part of your last paragraph, I found myself thinking about my old gran ;)

Thanks for the input, Barbara. It's good to see you back online :)
karin_gastreich
May. 21st, 2012 09:09 pm (UTC)
Hi Jon,

You've definitely struck a chord here; lots of interesting comments & stories.

I've participated in 2 writers groups, one local & one on line. Both were helpful for different reasons.

I think the most important role of a writers group is to keep its members writing. For some people, that means perpetual positive feedback; for others it means hardcore critiques. Most are looking for something in between.

My writers groups were most helpful to me when I was getting started; nowadays, while I still interact with both groups, I find I get most of my feedback from critique partners. Though to be fair, some of my best critique partners are people I met through my writers groups.

A lot depends on chemistry, and the stage of the journey in which each writer finds him/herself. It's good to have some rules/guidelines regarding how to critique each other; and to try to keep it as much about the writing as possible (as making it a social club as well can lead to funky dynamics...)

Writers groups can be a lot of fun, though, and a great source of support. I hope yours works out well!
jongibbs
May. 21st, 2012 09:28 pm (UTC)
Hi Karin,

i hate to admit it, but it's true. On this blog, the comments are almost always more interesting than the actual post :)
writerjenn
May. 21st, 2012 11:35 pm (UTC)
First, I had to chuckle at the "are you now or have you ever been" wording because of the historical reference ... ;-)

But seriously ...
I've been involved with a few groups. These are the kinds of questions to think about:
What is the main goal of the group?
Will you focus on a particular genre or skill level?
Will you limit the size of the group?
Will people join by invitation only, or is it open to anyone at any time? Can people drift in and out, or will you ask for a commitment?
How long do people need to participate before they can have their own work critiqued?
Will you "go around the circle," giving everyone equal time, or is everyone OK with the idea of some people talking much more than others?
How will you determine who submits work for critique and in what order? How much work can be submitted at a time, and how far in advance of the meeting?
Will everyone respond to submissions with written critiques, or will there only be oral critiques at the meeting?
Will you have rules about the civility of the discussion and critique? (My group asks people to use the "sandwich" method--i.e., to start and end with a positive point, with the constructive criticism in the middle.)
Where and how often will you meet?
If problems or issues arise in the group, what will be the procedure for discussing and resolving them?
Will you have a leader? If so, will that position rotate, and how will the leader be chosen? If not, who takes on whatever organizational responsibilities there are (figuring out whose critique is next, or how to reschedule the meeting around a holiday, or what to do if your meeting venue is suddenly unavailable, or whether to cancel for a snowstorm, etc.).

I find that groups generally have very high turnover, as people's needs, interests, and availability change. I also find that I prefer written critiques, although supplementation with back-and-forth discussion is helpful too. I greatly prefer exchanging whole manuscripts with people over the chapter-at-a-time method, so I've worked out a special situation with my group. They mostly operate on the chapter-at-a-time model, but I ask for whole-novel critiques and in exchange will give them, with whoever else in the group is able to do this. I also like to get (or give) just one round of critique on any given ms.
I also recommend against getting too much into refreshments at meetings, because then it can become more of a social event, or people can start worrying more about what food they're going to bring than about their writing.

Finally, you probably know this, but Becky Levine has written a guide to writers' critique groups.

jongibbs
May. 22nd, 2012 09:06 am (UTC)
Good points all. I think writing group needs to have a clearly-defined expectation of what it hopes to achieve (and what's expected of its members). It also needs clear rules of engagement for critique purposes as well as a strong moderator.

Thanks for sharing, Jenn :)

PS: I like Becky's post on flexible critique groups (http://beckylevine.com/2011/01/14/friday-five-flexible-critique-groups/) :)
snaky_poet
May. 22nd, 2012 12:23 am (UTC)
I've been in a number of writing groups over the decades, mostly as the facilitator. — in prisons, libraries, private homes, adult education colleges, neighbourhood centres, and one university.

The biggest impression I usually get (with a few exceptions) is the feeling of homecoming, to be among the like-minded who share my passion. Exceptions are those with undue earnestness, pretensions, and judgmental attitude.

I find that learning happens best in an atmosphere of laughter, writers learn by doing, and every comment is worth taking note of, although you might not end up doing as suggested.

People can be intimidated and quite put off by having their work torn apart. Err on the side of caution there, until all are very comfortable with each other — even then, it is more a matter of 'how can this work best?' than 'what's wrong with this?'

Some people can spell, some can't. I tell people who can't, 'Don't worry; that's what editors are for.' No good them getting hung up on irrelevancies. Spelling ability has no correlation with writing talent. (Grammar, however, can be important — as a tool of meaning — but should be examined during revision, not creation.)

I heartily recommend Natalie Goldberg's 'Writing Down the Bones' and 'Wild MInd' as the foundation of any writing group.

Edited at 2012-05-22 12:24 am (UTC)
snaky_poet
May. 22nd, 2012 12:50 am (UTC)
PS
My current group (in which 8-12 people out of 16 are likely to show up on any occasion) has evolved a simple format: Half an hour talking about where we're at in our own writing, taking it in turns. We can include 1 minute of sharing personal stuff. We may also include discussion of writing in general during this time, and any 'housekeeping' matters. And we can eat lunch if we haven't already. Then an hour to read any writing we wish to share. We do often have specific homework but it's not compulsory. The non-specific homework is always 'write something' but even that is not compulsory. We recognise that there are'input' times and that shit happens. We provide photocopies for people to look at and mark during the reading aloud.. We keep it to 2 pages max. At the end of every month we devote a whole meeting to anyone who wants longer work critiqued. They must supply a copy by email at least a week previously.

Then we have a quick tea-and-toilet break, followed by an hour and a half of writing exercises. We read out the results around the circle, with little comment. People are free to say 'Pass' if they have produced something too personal to share.

Ground rules:
Swearing is permitted, even encouraged.
Self-derogatory comments before reading, such as, 'This isn't much good' are forbidden. (Though they can be said in the writing. Anything and everything can.)

jongibbs
May. 22nd, 2012 09:08 am (UTC)
Re: PS
A clear set of ground rules are a must.

Thanks for the input, Rosemary :)
Re: PS - snaky_poet - May. 22nd, 2012 12:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: PS - jongibbs - May. 22nd, 2012 03:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
rippatton
May. 22nd, 2012 12:59 am (UTC)
I belong to several writing groups (one a national one I founded myself- SpecFicNZ), and the key thing I look for is networking and a nice balance of give-and-take.

For example, I recently joined a local writing group after moving back to the US. They sent me a member pin in an envelope- not much else in there. They seem to ask for a lot of help on their forum and mailing list, but I'd like to see them do something for me as a member before I volunteer a lot of my time to do something for them. After all, I just paid them for something (not sure what so far, though).

I did go to a Reading they gave at a local Con (not to read, just to observe for future reference). The reading was well-attended and well-organized, but later when I went to the org table at the Con to introduce myself as a new member the two ladies at the table barely gave me the time of day. Seems since I was a member already, they had no interest in me.

I would ask, what are you going to do for your members? What are the benefits for them for joining. If you give them something, they will probably give back in return, but it is up to you as the coordinator to give first, to prove yourself worthy.
jongibbs
May. 22nd, 2012 09:19 am (UTC)
sent me a member pin in an envelope- not much else in there.

I've seen the equivalent a few times. It's strange, as if the folks behind the writing group seem more focussed on getting new members than keeping the ones they've got.

What's happening with SpecFicNZ now you're back here?
(no subject) - rippatton - May. 22nd, 2012 03:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
tex_maam
May. 22nd, 2012 01:44 am (UTC)
I'm a pretty new member of the DFW Writer's Workshop, and although it's not perfect, it's been around for 30 years, is still going strong, and I can *totally* see why.

There are usually about 30-40 people who show up each week; we split up into smaller groups of 6-10, and members take turns reading their work aloud and receiving critique. (The verbal format has taken some getting used to, but I can see its advantages - you definitely hear mistakes that you might not see.) Pretty much every genre and age group and skill level is represented, which is important to me, and I like the fact that groups are assembled at random - sure, sometimes you get great folks and sometimes the chemistry's just not there, but it goes a long way towards fostering new friendships, and ensuring that people don't just clique up and tune out.

One thing that made a giant impression on me: every week, some of the members go out to eat at IHOP right after the meeting. My very first week, I was invited to join them, and went, and found out about 45 minutes in that I was sitting and BSing about comic books with a guy who's published like seven books, with one of the biggest mega-publishing houses around, and is pretty dang famous. Talking to ME of all people!

So I guess what I'm saying is, I think it's important to have a mix of people in every respect. It'll generate some friction, sure - any worthwhile grouping will - but it also ensures that the group doesn't homogenize itself to death.
jongibbs
May. 22nd, 2012 09:22 am (UTC)
I know what you mean about mixing. After GSHW meetings, everyone's invited to the local diner for lunch and a chinwag. It's agreat way to make people feel part of something.

Thanks for sharing :)
jakobdrud
May. 22nd, 2012 12:07 pm (UTC)
I have to say, a writing group should create progress. Not just in my own writing (though getting rid of some of those mistakes is always nice) but also by giving the participants a push up the learning curve.

My own experience with real-life writing groups is limited to two different groups, with the current being the best by far. We have a good atmosphere and talk about other things than writing, but that doesn't stop us from being honest with each other when something doesn't work.

And most importantly: We aim for constructive criticism. If something doesn't work, we try to give each other ideas to fix it. The author may or may not use the feedback, but it usually provides useful examples about how others would write a particular scene.
jongibbs
May. 22nd, 2012 02:56 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the input, Jakob. By the way, Your Daily Science Fiction story turned up in my inbox the other day.

Nice one :)
raisinbottom
May. 22nd, 2012 09:22 pm (UTC)
I never joined a writing group because of distance. Gas is especially dear nowadays for people of humble means who maintain day jobs which help fuel, in some way, the pipe dream of being published.

After meeting you at the Ocean County Library, hearing tales about plagiarism from a handful of people gives me pause. Ideas are dime a dozen, plagiarism should be considered flattering and motivation to do something new.

Yet there's the idea of "This is my baby! The best I'll ever do." I'm only human and this shortsightedness gets in my way.
jongibbs
May. 22nd, 2012 09:44 pm (UTC)
Hi Adrian,

I know what you mean about tales of plagiarism.

That said, in my experience, the vast majority of plagiarism stories, while no less upsetting for the writer in question, turn out not to be plagiarism stories so much as 'Someone else wrote a story with the same basic idea as mine.'
1wordsmith2
May. 25th, 2012 12:39 pm (UTC)
Read/critique writing group
Both groups I attend are free (no fees) and meet frequently: one weekly, one twice a month. Both are structured. (I left one that was of a social chat and refreshments variety. I left another because the writers were mostly inspirational and/or personal memoir writers who wrote to entertain each other and were not interested in publication or writing progress.)

Readers in the groups I attend now are scheduled weeks in advance, ms max length to read each time is 10 pg, dbl space, copies for all. Feedback is both written and oral. Oral in turn so no one hogs the time. Writers come and go but there is a core group of 4 or 5 serious writers in both groups and we know each other's style. Both groups are congenial and welcome new members or visitors.

In the weekly group, newcomers are not permitted to give critique orally (they can make notes on the ms.)until they have attended three meetings. This saves time during oral feedback it gives them time to get acquainted with the way the group functions and also the WIPs. Dilettantes self-deport. It's a celebration of sorts when "the muzzle comes off" those who stay.

We critique the writing, not the content based on personal preference. We periodically have open time to discuss and share info about craft, conferences, the industry, etc.
jongibbs
May. 25th, 2012 02:19 pm (UTC)
Re: Read/critique writing group
Sounds like you have a good thing going. Thanks for sharing :)
( 59 comments — Leave a comment )

Things What I Wrote and Other Stuff

No longer in print but there are still some copies floating around out there


No longer in print but there are still some copies floating around out there















 











THE MEAGER PUDDLE OF LIMELIGHT AWARDS


Books by my writer friends - compressed

NJ Writing groups - compressed

NJ writing conference - compressed

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