Depending on who you talk to, a writing group can be a great place to learn more about writing, or a complete waste of time.
Depending on who you talk to, at the meetings you’ll find like-minded people who’ll encourage and support you, or a bunch of pretentious Noddy-Knowalls, who use what little they know about the craft to tear other people’s work apart.
The person you talk to is 100% right.
The way I see it, what you get out of a writing group is exactly what you’re looking for. Sure, some of the members might not be your kind of people, or have different agendas, but chances are you’ll find at least one person with the same goals as you.
I belong to two, the GSHW and the Monmouth Creative Writing Group. I’ve made a lot of good friends and learned a great deal from both, but after reading about ![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small}
j_cheney’s experience at a recent RWA meeting, I realize that not everyone is so lucky.
It’s not for me to judge what happened. I’m sure those RWA people are decent enough folk, but I wonder if there ought to be some common sense guidelines for how members conduct themselves at writing group meetings. If ever they decide to produce one, I have a few things they can include:
First Impressions count
My old gran used to say, ‘Touch that again and I’ll snap your fingers off!’ It has no relevance here, but the other thing she used to say does. ‘You only get one chance to make a first impression.’ If you belong to a writing group, please remember that the next time you see a new face there. If that person never comes back, don’t let it be because of something you did or didn’t do or say.
Ask not what your writing group can do for you…
It’s the people involved who make a writing group worth joining. It’s the friendly encouragement, chit-chat and sincere welcome that attracts new members. Even if you don’t want to help with the organizational side of things, you can still play a part. Take the time to get to know some of the others in your group. Help set out chairs, or tidy up the room after the meeting.
Remember how it felt to be the new person
We’ve all felt a little nervous about entering a room where we didn’t know anyone. Didn’t it feel great when someone took the time to make you feel welcome? Why not do that for someone else? Introduce those new people to others with similar interests.
Play nice with the other kids
It’s okay to disagree with someone else’s opinions or methods, but keep it polite, and never get personal.
It’s not about you
People notice if you only turn up to meetings or comment on the group message board when you’ve got something to sell or celebrate.
Be a promoter
If you belong to a writing group, chances are you found out about it because someone promoted it, whether it was a flyer, an ad or a personal invite. When was the last time you promoted your own writing group?
If you can think of another useful tip for people, I’d love to hear it.
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jongibbs- Jon Gibbs
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Comments
What I've found the most helpful about writing workshops is that they can teach the writer how to write a "workshop" story. Workshops stories are important as they don't upset the status quo. To make the good sale nowadays, a piece of fiction needs all the appropriate character and plot arcs to fulfill reader expectation. Workshops are excellent for this.
I once had this silly notion that I wanted to be a unique writer with my own individualistic, idiosyncratic vision, but I've since learned the error of my ways. Writing workshops excel at helping the writer bleed all the inspiration and originality from one's fiction so as to produce a truly homogenous product that offends no one yet satisfy few as well. This is important as originality doesn't sell very well anymore and is rather frowned upon, though some often pay lip service to the notion. As Frank Burns once said on M*A*S*H, "Individuality is fine, as a long as we all do it together."
Still, some habits die hard and I've been pondering taking up my old ways. Unfortunately, I've been unable to find just the right workshop to help me accomplish this. Does anyone know where I can find a workshop that specializes in teaching a writer how to be himself? That's the workshop I want to attend!
My tongue-in-cheek entry above was just my way of complaining that a lot of fiction that comes out of workshops all sounds the same. Workshops are probably important for the beginning writer trying to learn craft and technique. I didn't learn it there though. I did have to wade through a lot of mundane books on craft and technique to find a few excellent ones that helped. But the best place to learn writing, I think, is to read and study fiction that one admires. Then hold your latest attempt up against that great work and see where yours falls short.
I have participated in a few workshops, and I found most of the advice to be unhelpful. Nowadays I have a few close writer friends who look over my current story, but only when it's gone through all its various stages and is basically finished. I never show anyone a WIP.
I have gained much from workshops and critting in general, but that was from being a critter. Analyzing other writers' fiction helped me in finding out what was wrong with my own, to learn how to take a story apart by analyzing the fictional process. Hence, I learned more or less to be my own workshop.
But yeah, after one learns the basics and more advanced techniques, I don't think workshops are all that important. There's something to be said that each of us is own our own and we each have to find our own way. :-)
Edited at 2009-06-25 04:18 pm (UTC)
I never took a course on the subject. I've often said that I've learned most of what I know about writing from books and hearing other people critique other people's work. I agree that we shouldn't write by committee, but critique group partners can spot things like continuity and POV issues in our stories that we can't see ourselves.
I joined the Monmouth Writers in December 2006, more than three years after I finished the first draft of my first novel. Looking back, I wish I'd had the foresight to find a writing group sooner.
For me, the greatest benefit of belonging to one is the mutual support and encouragement I receive (and hopefully give), rather than any specific tips or advice, though they are useful. I enjoy the meetings, and the chinwag at the diner afterwards. It makes me feel like a writer and inspires me to work harder, especially when others move ahead of me in the agent/publishing process.
Writing may be a one-person deal, but I see no reason to make the journey alone :)
I agree. If there one thing I got out of belonging to OWW for six months is I made a couple of good friends who introduced me to much. It led to getting on LJ and becoming a reviewer, then an interviewer, etc. As you can tell from all my blogging, I'm into the social thing because, yes, this is a lonely business. I guess that's what I was looking for when I joined OWW. :D
1) Find a group that matches your needs. Some groups obsess about rules-- strict m.s. format specs, strict deadlines for submitting, minimum output required to stay in the group, maximum output allowed to be critiqued, etc. My group is very flexible. If you like to submit the novel in chunks, as you write it, fine. If you prefer to wait and submit the whole thing, also fine.
2) Be very aware of people's prejudices. I know I have them and so does every one else. I tend to prefer a linear story and complain about flashbacks. There is one woman in my group who always like the character no one else likes. There is a guy who every single time wants more description of what the characters look like. I don't mean just in my stories,; this is in everyone's stories. Pay attention to trends in critiques and filter out those comments that are so personal they don't really help.
3) remember your ultimate goal is NOT pleasing the group; it's selling the story.
Catherine
Catherine
My gran used a cattle prod instead so my parents wouldn't know what she was up to.
'Get away from there!' bzzzzt.
Happy days :)
LOL
Okay, that "no relevance here" totally distracted me with laughing.
Onto the guidelines: I'd emphasize even more about not getting personal. Especially in the critiquing. When I was in a group, we had a great facilitator who always managed to redirect potentially personal or insulting comments. It's also good to learn the language of critiquing. Instead of saying, this is boring (which actually, at the stage of the game I'm in, I might welcome), it helps to find the cause of the slow pacing or the redundancy or whatever it is, and focus on some specific, or even compare it to a passage that really flies and show the good aspects as well.
I think your post hit all the best points :-)
"Writing workshops excel at helping the writer bleed all the inspiration and originality from one's fiction so as to produce a truly homogenous product that offends no one yet satisfy few as well. This is important as originality doesn't sell very well anymore.." That had me laughing out loud. :)
Edited at 2009-06-25 06:00 pm (UTC)
I would add that if the writing group does have a know it all who is intent on making everyone else like him/her, then find another writing group. Or if there is someone who thinks his/her work is flawless but tears everyone else down, run.
Such people are poison.
I've been in 4 writing groups, 1 live and 3 online. Until I found my current group, my longest stay in the others was a month. The first three had fragile egos and hard line writing rules that only applied to a narrow band of stories, yet wanted them applied across the board... Also be wary of the "stars" of the group, people who are probably gifted writers but fear competition.
My current group rocks. Strong writers with strong opinions, but delivered with humility and acknowledgement that opinions are just opinions.
However, once you've identified those special characters who might otherwise ruin a group, I think it's worth learning to ignore their input, rather than let them spoil the whole group for you.
Hey, maybe that's why no one talks to me at meetings anymore :)
I've been in a couple of "open" writing groups which were eventually destroyed by people who didn't give a **** about writing, not really. They just wanted to get out of the house for the night. And flirt. We went through a bad phase of that.
I don't know how to guard against it either. A few of us who were serious about writing tried to find a way to solve that problem but couldn't unless we became elitist, which we all hated the idea of, so we quit the group which promptly folded without the "serious about writing," people to keep it going.
So, I'm down to having a few trusted writing friends which I got from the groups so I guess it's not all bad.
But yes, constant newbies while vital to keep a group from stagnating can also destroy it.
What an interesting post.
My writing group advice is this: you can learn as much from giving a critique as from receiving one. Which is to say, spend plenty of time on the critiques you offer others, because you both benefit.
Cheers!
I suggest this group as it is located in central New Jersey and a great group of individuals at all stages of the writing game. The website alone is worth a visit. You might want to give it a shot.
Sorry to barge in, but writing groups are important to me, so is dynastic queen. She led me here.
My main peeve--and boy, does it stick in my craw--is when, in a fiction focus group that covers many genres, a member critiques a manuscript according to their personal reading preferences rather than the market it is for. What you don't care for, frankly, is irrelevant, in my opinion. What you've signed up for is to constructively help your mate make his/her project appeal to its target audience. That said, anything that truly offends you isn't something you have to critique (in our group)--just opt out. (No one ever has, though.) If your mates are decent people, they won't hold it against you. OR you can always join a group that is genre-specific and avoid the problem altogether.
Just my buck/fifty.
The comments in this thread are terrific. :)
Thanks for sharing :)